The Tape Debate

[sexxymofo]

lecalla said:

I had the opportunity to see Journey in concert, '98 Ky State Fair. Even though Augeri was singing (or attempting to sing) those famous Journey tunes, there was something else I kept hearing...a little snatch of something, every time the man had to hit the high notes. Steve Perry's voice. At first I thought it was just wishful thinking on my part, but when my sister, who was all of 13 years old at the time, turned to me during "Don't Stop Believing" and said "Did you hear that? That was Steve's voice!" Well, let me tell you that I began to listen a bit harder and watch Jon a bit closer. We had a real good vantage point on Jon. Every single time Augeri had to go high, Jon reached over to a smallish black keyboard and quickly tapped some keys...kept his hand there until the high notes were over, then went back to the main keyboard and piano that he always plays. Just a bit too unusual for me. Also a bit suspicious. Also the guy didn't know when to stop singing the "Na-nas" at the end of LTS...again, he only sang the lower-range part of that.
Then came the accusations that Journey was using Steve Perry's voice in click-track. I believe that they did, indeed, use Mr. Perry's voice. I heard it, first hand.

I doubt that they would be stupid enought to use Perry's voice that is totally unacceptable. How dare they?

You know I asked myself why Steve Perry hasn't been to the concerts and I always told myself there's a lot of bad blood between them right, but maybe just maybe If he would have gone to a show early on and watched/heard it none of this would have been going on cause you know he would NOT satnd for this crap! He would never decieve us hes Perfection at it's best! These men only carried on with the Journey name cause they have exwives, child support, bills;bills and more bills on top of that! So with that in mind I say their journey is almost over!

[icubud]

I had deleted my post (which is included below) to make sure I
was comfortable with what I was saying and that I was rational.
I would like to reiterate this one single thought - IF this is true -
how truly sad one of the greatest bands in history have become.
==============================================
Hmmmm - this is a doozy.
First --- I am not an expert --- I was asked for my opinion after listening.
Listening to the first 1:45 of Vegas and 1:47 of Toronto - I gotta say if:
1. I did not have any idea about the people involved or the history
2. Had to place a bet
Then:
I would say that they are indeed the same lead vocals.

I do not mean to be a jerk or hateful etc.-- but does it or would it really surprise you if they did use recorded live vocals for concerts?
IF what is left of the band is something specifically to make a living --- knowing it will not sell CDs but its livelihood is playing live ----- what would you expect them to do?
It is a shame if it is indeed true and happening but considering what they have become....
==============================================
Also I would like to add something about the clips and something I heard and I want some GOOD ears and someone with some good equip to check. On the recent "performances" of Separate Ways I am 99% sure I can hear what seems like someone (SA in this particular case) singing into what is pretty close to a dead microphone. Meaning that the sound level was so low that it would not interfere with the actual audio of the song. Please listen for yourself and pay special attention to parts of the bridge or chorus where typically a lead singer would "add" a little to the song. Know what I mean? The "adding" is MUCH lower in audio level than the rest of the audio part of the song. I guess the best way to check it would be "seeing it" or someone who is tech savy that can see the "footprint" (I think is what they call it - again not an expert) of the "adding" compared to the rest of the track. Lemme know...

[perrynow]

Icubud said:
"I do not mean to be a jerk or hateful etc.-- but does it or would it really surprise you if they did use recorded live vocals for concerts?
IF what is left of the band is something specifically to make a living --- knowing it will not sell CDs but its livelihood is playing live ----- what would you expect them to do?"

No, it would not surprise me at all, if this turns out to be true. I knew Augeri was an "OK" singer, but not meant for Journey or trying to sing over Neal's outrageously loud guitar. If all they can do is resort to the old classics to pay their bills, I'd expect them to either hire a singer who can sing LIVE, so as not to rip off fans who are paying for a live concert, cancel all of their tour dates until their current singer can actually sing LIVE, OR...retire and keep their dignity intact. Neal wanted "Journey" back. OK..so BE Journey, not something trumped up/ propped up by recordings. Although they will never be GREAT ever again, at the very least, be real. You'd think he would be sick to death of playing the same stuff every time they take the stage, especially if he is listening to the same thing I heard in parts of those clips. Have they all sold their pride and dignity for the dollar? The questions remains...is it true (?)

[sparkle2]

Well I don't have the ear to really be able to tell (unless of course they are being dumb enough to use Perry's voice...) but what really makes you go "hhmmm" is that no one from the Journey camp has officially denied it anywhere, as far as I know. Usually when something starts circulating that they don't like Schon is out there ranting and telling his loyal fans to get a life and blaming Perry for everything. Of course from what I hear, even HE doesn't go to the official site anymore, lol...

sparkle

[sexxymofo]

Bill there's another one up and he will be posting the rest later on today as I have read.
Cant' wait to hear your input cause you seem like an expert on this and have access to better
technology than us.

[Bill]

Just gave a listen to the escape clip, things that make ya say hummmmmmm

[pat]

For whatever reasons certain people have remained silent on this issue and this is an issue that needs to be addressed for the fans sake. Not saying that SA is not a good singer at all but he is not the person to sing lead in Journey. Those songs are powerful songs and not everyone can sing them or are ment to sing them other than SP. SA can make it on his own he doesn't need Neal and company. If this is true than it is very sad because they are tearing down the reputation of one of the greatest bands there is and they are cheating the fans as well. So very sad.

[arden]

I'm finding it hard to have any sympathy for Augeri in this. He's taking part in a fraud as well as Jon and Neal.

If Perry is truly an inspiration to him as he claimed in the Arrival liner notes, he should have enough respect to step down when he can no longer sing the songs rather than carry out this deception.

pat said:

For whatever reasons certain people have remained silent on this issue and this is an issue that needs to be addressed for the fans sake. Not saying that SA is not a good singer at all but he is not the person to sing lead in Journey. Those songs are powerful songs and not everyone can sing them or are ment to sing them other than SP. SA can make it on his own he doesn't need Neal and company. If this is true than it is very sad because they are tearing down the reputation of one of the greatest bands there is and they are cheating the fans as well. So very sad.

[sexxymofo]

The comments are so funny Most are in regards to the board that got shut down, they are right "that board" has turned into BT#2.

[Bill]

I always thought "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas..." hummmm

Seriously though everyone can listen and make their own decision, and I am sure some will fight to the death saying it's not true while others will say yes I hear it.

I don't think we will ever know what the truth is unless someone steps up and says yes I did this or that or unless something goofs up live one night (failure of backtrack) if there is such a thing.

Will be interesting to watch, listen and see what happens...

[properry]

ftlosm said:

I always thought "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas..." hummmm

Seriously though everyone can listen and make their own decision, and I am sure some will fight to the death saying it's not true while others will say yes I hear it.

I don't think we will ever know what the truth is unless someone steps up and says yes I did this or that or unless something goofs up live one night (failure of backtrack) if there is such a thing.

Will be interesting to watch, listen and see what happens...

Ultimately I just don't think lip synching at concerts is right, at all! I think it is better to cancel the shows, until the singer is REALLY READY to sing & perform.

But if a singer is going to take the route of lip synching, then better to be "open & honest" with fans about it BEFORE hand, than to decieve them, & have a huge goof on stage with the failure of backtrack, I think that would be far more embarrassing for the singer.

Lori

[Bill]

I was just over at MR and saw Andrew posted it may reopen Monday, I hope he does and I hope folks can go in and have civil discussions there without everything blowing up again.

I feel for him personally cuz he is getting it from both ends, if he edits, locks, closes a thread he gets floods of personal messages and emails, if he lets it go he again gets floods of personal messages why doesnt he do something about this comment or that one etc.

I say I feel for him cuz way back when I first made the hotel de perry (which was torn down by nazi/hackers 2x in a row) I decided after the second rebuild it was too much hassle to keep going and just gave up on the whole idea cuz most days I would get more emails about posts than I got SPAM or personal family emails.

I know this rebirth of the hotel run now by ICUBUD is going pretty smooth and for that I am happy to see, maybe it was just me the nazi/hackers didn't want running a Perry Board, who knows... But I just hope everyone here and there can talk about all this and or other topics without getting nasty or personally attacking each other.

Remember too we are talking about an alleged accusation, despite what one may believe from listening to a few audio clips and coming to their own conclusions, remembering to phrase comments by adding the words "IF" he did or "IF" it's true etc is just as important on both viewpoints.

Bill

[arden]

I never doubted that MR would reopen. I also do not believe that anything over there will change. There seems to be a handful of people who are continuously trying to control who can post there and what they can say. Civil discussions seem to be a thing of the past there.

IMO, The discussion here has been quite civil. This thread has been and will continue to be closely moderated. No personal attacks on forum members will be tolerated.

On this forum, we have the option to delete an individual post rather than locking or deleting the whole thread. That doesn't seem to be the case on other boards, for some reason ,which allows some to deliberately come in and either hijack the thread or cause it to be closed.

The Hotel is decidedly Pro Perry and is not current lineup friendly. That was made very clear by icubud in the thread that remains stickied to the top of the forum. I whole heartedly agree. Any who do not are free to pass us by.

There are many forums which routinely allow Perry bashing as well as the bashing of his fans. Perry fans have been trashed openly on many forums to the point that some Perry forums choose to become private boards. We have chosen to remain a public board to allow Perry fans a place to come and discuss whatever they wish including the actions of the current lineup. No amount of complaining from the pro current lineup camp should ever change that.

If Mr. Perry should ever stumble over this forum, I should hope that he will see that he has many fans who miss him and his era of Journey who want to have intelligent discussions about things other than his hair and his butt.

All that being said, I'd like to return this thread to it's original programming...is it live or is it Memorex?

ftlosm said:

I was just over at MR and saw Andrew posted it may reopen Monday, I hope he does and I hope folks can go in and have civil discussions there without everything blowing up again.

I feel for him personally cuz he is getting it from both ends, if he edits, locks, closes a thread he gets floods of personal messages and emails, if he lets it go he again gets floods of personal messages why doesnt he do something about this comment or that one etc.

I say I feel for him cuz way back when I first made the hotel de perry (which was torn down by nazi/hackers 2x in a row) I decided after the second rebuild it was too much hassle to keep going and just gave up on the whole idea cuz most days I would get more emails about posts than I got SPAM or personal family emails.

I know this rebirth of the hotel run now by ICUBUD is going pretty smooth and for that I am happy to see, maybe it was just me the nazi/hackers didn't want running a Perry Board, who knows... But I just hope everyone here and there can talk about all this and or other topics without getting nasty or personally attacking each other.

Remember too we are talking about an alleged accusation, despite what one may believe from listening to a few audio clips and coming to their own conclusions, remembering to phrase comments by adding the words "IF" he did or "IF" it's true etc is just as important on both viewpoints.

Bill

[properry]

arden said:

I never doubted that MR would reopen. I also do not believe that anything over there will change. There seems to be a handful of people who are continuously trying to control who can post there and what they can say. Civil discussions seem to be a thing of the past there.

IMO, The discussion here has been quite civil. This thread has been and will continue to be closely moderated. No personal attacks on forum members will be tolerated.

On this forum, we have the option to delete an individual post rather than locking or deleting the whole thread. That doesn't seem to be the case on other boards, for some reason ,which allows some to deliberately come in and either hijack the thread or cause it to be closed.

The Hotel is decidedly Pro Perry and is not current lineup friendly. That was made very clear by icubud in the thread that remains stickied to the top of the forum. I whole heartedly agree. Any who do not are free to pass us by.

There are many forums which routinely allow Perry bashing as well as the bashing of his fans. Perry fans have been trashed openly on many forums to the point that some Perry forums choose to become private boards. We have chosen to remain a public board to allow Perry fans a place to come and discuss whatever they wish including the actions of the current lineup. No amount of complaining from the pro current lineup camp should ever change that.

If Mr. Perry should ever stumble over this forum, I should hope that he will see that he has many fans who miss him and his era of Journey who want to have intelligent discussions about things other than his hair and his butt.

All that being said, I'd like to return this thread to it's original programming...is it live or is it Memorex?

ftlosm said:

I was just over at MR and saw Andrew posted it may reopen Monday, I hope he does and I hope folks can go in and have civil discussions there without everything blowing up again.

I feel for him personally cuz he is getting it from both ends, if he edits, locks, closes a thread he gets floods of personal messages and emails, if he lets it go he again gets floods of personal messages why doesnt he do something about this comment or that one etc.

I say I feel for him cuz way back when I first made the hotel de perry (which was torn down by nazi/hackers 2x in a row) I decided after the second rebuild it was too much hassle to keep going and just gave up on the whole idea cuz most days I would get more emails about posts than I got SPAM or personal family emails.

I know this rebirth of the hotel run now by ICUBUD is going pretty smooth and for that I am happy to see, maybe it was just me the nazi/hackers didn't want running a Perry Board, who knows... But I just hope everyone here and there can talk about all this and or other topics without getting nasty or personally attacking each other.

Remember too we are talking about an alleged accusation, despite what one may believe from listening to a few audio clips and coming to their own conclusions, remembering to phrase comments by adding the words "IF" he did or "IF" it's true etc is just as important on both viewpoints.

Bill

Great post arden & and I totally agree with everything you said!

Lori

[Bill]

I spent a good 2 hours today on my own matching up audio versions of various shows...

Using Sound Forge and a good set of Sennheiser 485 headphones, given the 3 shows as reference, matching them up side by side then even cross referencing them, these things are matching up vocally.


I love Steve Perry as a singer, yet I don't hate the new guy or lineup, heck I have seen them a few times even, it just (for me) didn't have the voice I grew up with (same with the cars, styx, queen etc ) altho I did dig sammy hagar with VH...hehe

I LOVE Neal Schons Guitar playing, there isn't a day that goes by that in some way I am not jammin to Electric World, older Journey, Beyond the Thunder or one of their offshoots like HSAS Hardline etc.

I have nothing against Augeri or the rest of the current lineup in fact I think Dean ROCKS on drums too he is one hard hitter (like Moyes Lucas is too)...

But with that all aside, I hear differences of all kinds, especially guitar and drums, yet the main vocals on these 3 different shows from 5-6 yrs apart are matching up pretty much solid exception of outro last min or so (guessing could be to address a new city or next song?).

Guys Gals whatever side of the fence or table you sit on, if you do this sit down actually do it yourself (merge these tracks yourself at home) find some sample program you can use for a week free or something, actually spend the time if your really interested to do this for yourself... I also wanna know if anyone else out there has any other shows between this 2001 vegas and the 2005 era shows, something else I could listen to as reference?

I even went so far as to try and match up some other live stuff I have around here, Perry era FTLOSM tracks, Perry era Journey, Neil Diamond, Metallica, Heart, even Sam Cooke... None of these are matchin up past 25-40 seconds in things sorta start to go out of phase so to speak... Yet 3-4 mins into each of these Journey tunes even tho there are variations of guitar the vocal tracks stay on course and have the same expression of notes words etc,

I have friends on both sides of this debate, and hopefully this stays civil as a debate but I sure do gotta say this does sound as if they are dubbing the vocal audio.

I know some will argue the source tapes, ok whatever, some will argue Dean has an agenda, heck I don't know Dean from Adam I dunno, but the tracks are what I was listening to and want more of from other people to compare from for to make up my own mind.

IF they are or have done this lets open the discussion of what about the future tour? For sure people will be taping, listening even more closely, watching lips etc and I don't know Augeri's history vocally, some say he was having "problems" I dunno what they were are they mentioned anywhere? (fill me in) give me the good and bad side or whatever both sides throw them out here lets chat about it...

Regardless of that tho man I gotta say the tapes match up at least to my ears...

What I wanna know is does anyone else have any other shows (besides vegas, toronto or the greek show in LA i think it was), anyone else got any OTHER shows we can try to match up and see if they synch or not?

I am gonna just say this here in public forum, please friends / haters of what I just posted whatever, please respond here, I don't want 73 emails tomorrow in my inbox about this, please don't respond to ICUBUD about this post or that post, come in and post here, I won't even read or answer emails about this except for in this forum where true discussion belongs but I sure am curious to know more from all angles of things after giving those tapes a good long listen I really wanna know all sides of things good bad whatever.

Bill

[arden]

Great post, Bill. I know you have done a lot of work on this.

I understand that the Scotland and UK tours are on You Tube, and that they are matching up to the 2001 DVD as well.

Regarding claims of the boots being "doctored"...that can't be the only boot. Someone should be able to find one that isn't "doctored" and prove Dean wrong...no one has.

Augeri was reported to be having a bout with pneumonia and that was cited as the reason they canceled the show in Chile. However, only a few days later they did a show in Hawaii.

It has been mentioned several times over that last two tours that Augeri was "struggling" with some of the songs. It has also been discussed that Deen was taking the high notes for him...sometimes with a cue from Augeri. Then in an interview, Neal said that Deen had blown out a vocal chord.

ftlosm said:

I spent a good 2 hours today on my own matching up audio versions of various shows...

Using Sound Forge and a good set of Sennheiser 485 headphones, given the 3 shows as reference, matching them up side by side then even cross referencing them, these things are matching up vocally.


I love Steve Perry as a singer, yet I don't hate the new guy or lineup, heck I have seen them a few times even, it just (for me) didn't have the voice I grew up with (same with the cars, styx, queen etc ) altho I did dig sammy hagar with VH...hehe

I LOVE Neal Schons Guitar playing, there isn't a day that goes by that in some way I am not jammin to Electric World, older Journey, Beyond the Thunder or one of their offshoots like HSAS Hardline etc.

I have nothing against Augeri or the rest of the current lineup in fact I think Dean ROCKS on drums too he is one hard hitter (like Moyes Lucas is too)...

But with that all aside, I hear differences of all kinds, especially guitar and drums, yet the main vocals on these 3 different shows from 5-6 yrs apart are matching up pretty much solid exception of outro last min or so (guessing could be to address a new city or next song?).

Guys Gals whatever side of the fence or table you sit on, if you do this sit down actually do it yourself (merge these tracks yourself at home) find some sample program you can use for a week free or something, actually spend the time if your really interested to do this for yourself... I also wanna know if anyone else out there has any other shows between this 2001 vegas and the 2005 era shows, something else I could listen to as reference?

I even went so far as to try and match up some other live stuff I have around here, Perry era FTLOSM tracks, Perry era Journey, Neil Diamond, Metallica, Heart, even Sam Cooke... None of these are matchin up past 25-40 seconds in things sorta start to go out of phase so to speak... Yet 3-4 mins into each of these Journey tunes even tho there are variations of guitar the vocal tracks stay on course and have the same expression of notes words etc,

I have friends on both sides of this debate, and hopefully this stays civil as a debate but I sure do gotta say this does sound as if they are dubbing the vocal audio.

I know some will argue the source tapes, ok whatever, some will argue Dean has an agenda, heck I don't know Dean from Adam I dunno, but the tracks are what I was listening to and want more of from other people to compare from for to make up my own mind.

IF they are or have done this lets open the discussion of what about the future tour? For sure people will be taping, listening even more closely, watching lips etc and I don't know Augeri's history vocally, some say he was having "problems" I dunno what they were are they mentioned anywhere? (fill me in) give me the good and bad side or whatever both sides throw them out here lets chat about it...

Regardless of that tho man I gotta say the tapes match up at least to my ears...

What I wanna know is does anyone else have any other shows (besides vegas, toronto or the greek show in LA i think it was), anyone else got any OTHER shows we can try to match up and see if they synch or not?

I am gonna just say this here in public forum, please friends / haters of what I just posted whatever, please respond here, I don't want 73 emails tomorrow in my inbox about this, please don't respond to ICUBUD about this post or that post, come in and post here, I won't even read or answer emails about this except for in this forum where true discussion belongs but I sure am curious to know more from all angles of things after giving those tapes a good long listen I really wanna know all sides of things good bad whatever.

Bill

[icubud]

What your findings show about the begin and ending match what I heard with my own two ears (and posted as such).
Again - very sad to see that one of the greatest groups in rock history has become this way... Journey impersonators.

[Bill]

Someone asked for a suggestion of what program to use, I use soundforge but it isn't free.

This program is free for audio editing and mixing altho I have never used it the reviews are high for this as a free flexible audio editing tool.

audacity.sourceforge.net/

So maybe give that one a try.

You may have to convert the wma's to wav's first (search google for wma to wav) again there are programs out there to convert, (I use one called Advanced Workshop) www.litexmedia.com/wma_workshop/ which will also convert to WAV MP3 or OGG and I think it also has a free 15 day trial if my memory is correct.

Hope this helps,

Bill

[arden]

Someone mentioned the lip synching rumours in the "Why I became an apathetic fan" thread at BT. The thread was locked in under a half hour and now only that one post has been removed.

Odd that they can't seem to do that with the posts in the Perry threads.

[properry]

I didn't see it, but I'm suprised it stayed on the board that long.

Lori

[sexxymofo]

arden said:

Someone mentioned the lip synching rumours in the "Why I became an apathetic fan" thread at BT. The thread was locked in under a half hour and now only that one post has been removed.

Odd that they can't seem to do that with the posts in the Perry threads.

What the hell? I missed it, yes it is funny how they can remove those comments and not the instigated comments such as the ones made by a certain instigator whom shall remain nameless. I rather not make HIS name known but he is annoying as hell! Always comes in and says the band is made up of 5 individuals and this is not a Steve Perry shrine.........

[perrynow]

sexymofo said:
"Always comes in and says the band is made up of 5 individuals and this is not a Steve Perry shrine.........
"
It's NOT??? LMAO!! It certainly appeared that way after he met with a some fans at the star recently! He was ushered off of the front page of "that forum" and into the back section of their website in the blink of an eye. Most people who come there for the first time don't even know what a "Precious Time" section of that forum is. Even posts there about Perry are criticized for their content and locked. It was a way to get all those posts about him off of the main page, that's ALL. Bury all Perry topics and his fans will just go away. NOT!!!

[kaj]

I have been a fan of this band since the first album when they were more of a fusion rock band and then just totally made them no:1 when Perry came along and put them on the top of the world!
They didn´t sell that many records before Perry joined them and now they´re back to square one with not selling any records.
Generations only sold 15,000 in Europe.
Ofcourse they need the music they did with SP to continue as a band,most bands like Vanhalen,Genesis and Black Sabbath continued to make new music and played mostly the new material with their new singer but not Journey.
Schon knows this,if they stopped playing songs from the Perry era,they would be playing small clubs only.
I will support Perry til I die,that´s one thing for sure.
The light for this line up of Journey is slowly fading out.
Perry´s For the love of strange medicine sold 400,000 in U.S while Journey´s Arrival sold 200,000 in the whole world,I think that says it all!
With love from Sweden´s no:1 biggest Journey fan!

[arden]

There are over 200 pics in this gallery. There is not one single pic of Augeri "singing" that he does not have the mic completely glued to his mouth. Is this normal for a singer? Can anyone tell anything about the size of the "sock" on the mic? Kaj?



www.jimrich.co.uk/manchester/pages/P6050097_JPG.htm

[properry]

Gee that mic almost "covers" Augeri's lips completely.

How can a singer REALLY sing with a mic,so firmly pressed up against the lips like that... wouldn't it sound muffled, IF he was really singing???

Lori

[arden]

Hey, Bill...

Here's another video to play with. Pay particular attention to about 1:15 in...Augeri takes the mic away from his mouth and keeps singing!!

This was in Scotland, I believe.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxJpZx840B4&search=Journey

[Bill]

I wish it was cleaner clearer and closer to tell if the actual drums, guitar, vocals were even in synch but watching that at two different times he appears to not be on the mic yet vocals are going...

At 18 seconds he turns to drums and you see arm go down with mic in hand yet vocals contiune, then again at 1 min 13 secs again vocals go on yet arms go up.

Again its hard to say tho since ya cant see clean clear and close enough to tell if its all in realtime synch but if so those are big clues.

I hope someone else has a tape or two that appears cleaner bigger closer etc I do know (from experience) sometimes moving a video clip onto the pc from camcorder, then converting and uploading to a site like youtube, things get off synched all the time, (examples are all over youtube) I watch lots of guitar clips on youtube and some are way off from the actual notes heard (hands in other areas of neck etc)... So it is a bit hard on that one, if they had a much better tape where we could see it cleaner it might shed more light on the subject.

[arden]

It is pretty blurry. Does the vocal sync up with the vocal on the 2001 DVD??

Did you get a chance to check the stills in the link I posted above?

ftlosm said:

I wish it was cleaner clearer and closer to tell if the actual drums, guitar, vocals were even in synch but watching that at two different times he appears to not be on the mic yet vocals are going...

At 18 seconds he turns to drums and you see arm go down with mic in hand yet vocals contiune, then again at 1 min 13 secs again vocals go on yet arms go up.

Again its hard to say tho since ya cant see clean clear and close enough to tell if its all in realtime synch but if so those are big clues.

I hope someone else has a tape or two that appears cleaner bigger closer etc I do know (from experience) sometimes moving a video clip onto the pc from camcorder, then converting and uploading to a site like youtube, things get off synched all the time, (examples are all over youtube) I watch lots of guitar clips on youtube and some are way off from the actual notes heard (hands in other areas of neck etc)... So it is a bit hard on that one, if they had a much better tape where we could see it cleaner it might shed more light on the subject.

[perrynow]

Hmmmmmmmm.....video might not be in synch with the audio? Yes, that could be one explanation, or..........??

[Bill]

Ok lots of questions raised recently, when does this newest tour start hitting USA cities?

Curious to see what happens during those live shows etc.

I just went on their site and saw the tour dates for usa, wow TONS of them, im sure with all this going on bootleg tapes will arise fast and be compaired...