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Post by sexxymofo on Jun 18, 2006 17:31:24 GMT -5
With that kind of mentality amongst their fans, there's no question how they have been able to fool them for two years. [/quote] I swear I read it has been going on since 2003 or even as far as when SA joined in 98'. The following post came from www.journeymusic.com/ontheroad/reviewshow.php?venue=119  "My wife and I flew down from Portland for the show since I knew it would probably be a once in a lifetime type of show, and I definitely echo all the positive reviews that have been posted so far. I've been to Journey shows since the late 70's, and the highlights for me were definitely getting to see the older material played again. But I do have a question I'm curious if anyone knows the answer to, and that is why were the cd vocal tracks for "We Will Meet Again" being played over the live vocals? I'm sure other people must have noticed this. Steve was either lip-synching or was singing along to the cd vocal tracks. But additionally, the background vocal tracks were being played as well. Was it because of all the sound problems they were having on stage? It was clear throughout the show that they were having troubles with their monitors, and possibly even Steve's microphone. But to the band's credit, despite their monitor problems, the sound out in the crowd was excellent. My wife seemed to think there may have been lip-synching on more than this one song, but I only caught it for sure on "We Will Meet Again." Anyone have any other details on this? - Steve Portland, OR (6:49:32 pm PDT - April 29, 2003) " |
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Post by perrynow on Jun 18, 2006 20:21:38 GMT -5
Looks like someone who knows Svante Pettersson posted at MR with all the links to check out his authenticity & credibility. There are people over there still questioning if THAT is real! Duh?
Ok, lets take this tape thing one step further...if in doing that and then getting good reviews from critics, etc., how will the journalist's, D.J.'s, interviewers and critics feel who have given them good reviews? Won't they feel deceived, too?
Another random thought: reflect back on the WOF star ceremony where "the guy in the white suit" stood there with a plaque and accepted accolades as part of the group, got in all the photos, shook hands & schmoozed, signed autographs as if he were some part of the long history and great band success story. This is just getting too incredible for words.
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Post by sexxymofo on Jun 18, 2006 20:36:02 GMT -5
It sure is! I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the show 
I wanna hear Journey's excuse, I want to see if they have the nerve to
apologize to the FANS, their own spouses, family members, the Industry and most of all why not apologize to Steve Perry for all the wrong done to him.
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Post by leducred on Jun 19, 2006 6:20:57 GMT -5
Im glad our Steve really didnt try to embrass and befriend the new steve. Steve knows what Neal and Jon are really like(Ross, too). Im sure he could smell a mile away how this all was going to play out, Neal suggesting STeve might show up when Steve has been pretty forth coming as to "NO IM NOT", etc.
s
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Post by sparkle2 on Jun 19, 2006 8:29:30 GMT -5
To me, what's really telling is the band's continued silence on the subject. There is obviously SOME reason the band haven't made a formal statement. Sounds to me like they're hoping it'll just go away. Where are these paragons of rock while all their loyal fans are making fools of themselves trying to concoct Perry-conspiracy theories? If I was Steve A. and really was singing, I'd be calling a press conference and belting out a couple of tunes. ..
sparkle
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Post by arden on Jun 19, 2006 12:32:57 GMT -5
This is from a DJ posting as Angiekay at the Crock. She says that this is a national widely used prep service: forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=17056&sid=f7f1762741e4e828ea189e128476c40aThis in our radio prep this morning: If an anonymous blogger is to be believed, Journey concerts haven't exactly been live performances. The Escape To Tape site has messages from "rockndeano" that say Journey frontman Steve Augeri (pronounced aw-JEER-ee) has been lip-syncing on stage to a pre-recorded vocal track, while the band plays live behind him. To prove his point, "rockndeano" has been posting live audio recordings and video footage online that he says prove his point, but several of the clips have been removed from their hosting site, and the blogger says pressure from Journey's management forced the hosting sites to take them down -- but a couple of audio tracks can still be found. There's been no public response from the Journey camp, but the band's webmaster is refusing to allow any discussion of the topic on the journeymusic.com message boards "until the rumors and speculation are officially addressed." Based on his posts, "Rockndeano" expects a response from Journey at any time. To check it out for yourself, go to escape-to-tape.blogspot.com. |
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Post by arden on Jun 19, 2006 12:41:11 GMT -5
I agree that the band's silence on this is deafening. It couldn't possibly take them this long to come up with a positive PR spin. Andrew McNeice's long awaited comment is anticlimatic, IMO. It just pretty much calls for the band to make a statement: JOURNEY - TIME TO COMMENT: There has been a very strong demand for me to address the allegations currently being aired about Journey and the possible use of vocals tapes during live performances. Regrettably the recent talk of such practices started here on my Journey message board, but since that time, the issue has taken on a much greater life of its own. I am a reluctant participant in this – my site drawn into this based on my long history with the band and my ardent support of this line-up, which has been in place since 1998. So many not remember or even know, but I was responsible for breaking the news worldwide that Steve Perry had left the band. Since that point I have been a big supporter of the guys, but some eight years later we are in the middle of another situation and people are wondering why I have not addressed it up to this point. It is alleged that the lead vocals of frontman Steve Augeri are not always live when the guys perform and furthermore, it is questioned just what portion of each show features backing tapes. The allegations have been misreported somewhat, with the term lip-syncing used in most cases. What needs to be clarified is the fact that the allegation is that while Steve has been singing, the band have been using backing tapes to enhance or cover-up his on stage performance. The chatter moved from my message boards to a dedicated Blog journal and from there it seems to have taken on a life of its own, including fresh comments from a well known Swedish sound engineer in regards to the band's Sweden Rock Festival performance. This issue is beginning to hurt the band and their reputation. Regardless of who or how it started, there is now a big enough question mark hanging over the band and it has to be addressed. And ASAP. Journey begin an extensive U.S. tour with Def Leppard in New Jersey on Friday. What has delayed my commenting on this issue the lack of any statement from the band or management. That is their call. But as with previous Journey reports, I have always had the benefit of a statement or quote from someone in the Journey camp and that is what I have been holding out for. At this stage I have contacted management and all members of the band several times, and am confident I will soon receive some official word to put this all to rest. For the good of the band this needs to be addressed now. Someone needs to set up a situation where the band can move on from this and a situation where fans and supporters can return to enjoying their favourite artist, rather than tearing each other apart on Internet message boards. To me, what's really telling is the band's continued silence on the subject. There is obviously SOME reason the band haven't made a formal statement. Sounds to me like they're hoping it'll just go away. Where are these paragons of rock while all their loyal fans are making fools of themselves trying to concoct Perry-conspiracy theories? If I was Steve A. and really was singing, I'd be calling a press conference and belting out a couple of tunes. .. sparkle |
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Post by arden on Jun 19, 2006 12:52:21 GMT -5
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Post by arden on Jun 19, 2006 22:17:31 GMT -5
Svante has made several posts at that sound group. He says that the editor of the show has BOTH tapes...the one coming out of the mic and the one that was going out to the speakers. That's the guy with the smoking gun. Kaj, is anyone trying to get that info to a media source?? groups.google.dm/group/alt.audio.pro.live-sound/browse_thread/thread/9431c4152805faf0Looks like someone who knows Svante Pettersson posted at MR with all the links to check out his authenticity & credibility. There are people over there still questioning if THAT is real! Duh? Ok, lets take this tape thing one step further...if in doing that and then getting good reviews from critics, etc., how will the journalist's, D.J.'s, interviewers and critics feel who have given them good reviews? Won't they feel deceived, too? Another random thought: reflect back on the WOF star ceremony where "the guy in the white suit" stood there with a plaque and accepted accolades as part of the group, got in all the photos, shook hands & schmoozed, signed autographs as if he were some part of the long history and great band success story. This is just getting too incredible for words. |
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Post by arden on Jun 19, 2006 23:09:47 GMT -5
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Post by Bill on Jun 19, 2006 23:33:11 GMT -5
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Post by arden on Jun 19, 2006 23:46:59 GMT -5
When you go to the home page, it lists Eddie Money, but when you click the email link then it does still list Journey. That is weird, Bill...er, EVIL. Maybe they haven't finished updating the page?? Someone posted about the change at the Crock, too. |
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Post by sexxymofo on Jun 19, 2006 23:57:11 GMT -5
I'm getting Eddie Money as well.....
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Post by Bill on Jun 20, 2006 0:02:10 GMT -5
Yeah I bet someone made the change on main page and didn't even realize the calendar is also on email portion page (I do that sorta stuff all the time with webpages).. Just forget to edit the other half or other page with the newer info.
LONG LIVE EVIL STRAWBERRY!
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Post by arden on Jun 20, 2006 0:27:03 GMT -5
Maybe EVIL STRAWBERRY could become the lead singer for Journey since you don't have to sing anymore. Yeah I bet someone made the change on main page and didn't even realize the calendar is also on email portion page (I do that sorta stuff all the time with webpages).. Just forget to edit the other half or other page with the newer info. LONG LIVE EVIL STRAWBERRY! |
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Post by sexxymofo on Jun 20, 2006 1:49:13 GMT -5
Maybe EVIL STRAWBERRY could become the lead singer for Journey since you don't have to sing anymore. LONG LIVE EVIL STRAWBERRY! [/quote] No... don't do them any favors Evil Strawberry you have a bigger following on your own ! ;D  |
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Post by leducred on Jun 20, 2006 6:03:04 GMT -5
lol
s
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Post by perrynow on Jun 20, 2006 14:48:58 GMT -5
OMG, I just heard on the radio an ad for Def Leppard's concert. They said Journey will be there too, "but it seems there is some controversy". Then they talked about the blog, the tapes and the allegations of lip synching. Wow, I still can't believe I just heard that!
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Post by arden on Jun 20, 2006 17:09:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, PN. What state was that in? I've read two other accounts of people hearing it on the radio, but they have not mentioned the state or station. It was on the Eagle website yesterday. It looks like they tried to contact Journey's publicist. It just speaks volumes to me that Journey is not commenting on this. That coupled with the Rockline interview being cancelled is really looking bad. www.1039theeagle.com/rocknews.shtmlJOURNEY SINGER ACCUSED OF LIP-SYNCHING If an anonymous blogger is to be believed, Journey concerts haven't exactly been live performances. The Escape To Tape site has messages from "rockndeano" that say Journey frontman Steve Augeri (pronounced aw-JEER-ee) has been lip-syncing on stage to a pre-recorded vocal track, while the band plays live behind him. To prove his point, "rockndeano" has been posting live audio recordings and video footage online that he says prove his point, but several of the clips have been removed from their hosting site, and the blogger says pressure from Journey's management forced the hosting sites to take them down -- but a couple of audio tracks can still be found. There's been no public response from the Journey camp, but the band's webmaster is refusing to allow any discussion of the topic on the journeymusic.com message boards "until the rumors and speculation are officially addressed." Based on his posts, "Rockndeano" expects a response from Journey at any time. To check it out for yourself, go to escape-to-tape.blogspot.com. Neither the blogger nor Journey's publicist responded to messages yesterday (Sunday, June 18th) OMG, I just heard on the radio an ad for Def Leppard's concert. They said Journey will be there too, "but it seems there is some controversy". Then they talked about the blog, the tapes and the allegations of lip synching. Wow, I still can't believe I just heard that! |
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Post by arden on Jun 20, 2006 17:39:00 GMT -5
If you hear it on your local station, make sure they know of the sound engineer's statement as that blog has just deteriorated into crazy ranting. Maybe send them the link to where Svante is posting. **************************************************** groups.google.dm/group/alt.audio.pro.live-sound/browse_thread/thread/9431c4152805faf0Bill wrote: > When you heard that terrible voice in the truck WHY didn't ya throw a tape > in and record it? Recordings of both mixes are with the producer and engineers of this show. I wasn't working with this particular show, I was only visiting in the truck. No one would have let me walk out of the truck with a personal tape of this. This is to avoid bootlegging of course. /Svante ************************************************** They also need to clarify that Augeri IS singing...his vocal just isn't what is going out over the speakers. That's why people up front are swearing that he isn't lip syncing. The Swedish sound engineer has two tapes...the feed that came out of the mic...and the feed going out to the house. |
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Post by Bill on Jun 20, 2006 17:53:21 GMT -5
Just to be clear Svante heard it but does not himself have the tapes, so the engineers of the swedish show apparently do have them and who knows maybe thru a friend of a friend or a friend of a bootleger friend of a friend a copy of that vocal may surface someday...
But Svante didn't even know about all this blog stuff etc till after he posted that and the blog people started emailing him about it.
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Post by Bill on Jun 20, 2006 17:55:04 GMT -5
btw that Bill was me, Bill wrote: > When you heard that terrible voice in the truck WHY didn't ya throw a tape > in and record it? if you look at the profile you can tell its me cuz other posts are about how to merge two tracks (asking sound forge users forum) and about sleep apnea and lack of sleep which you ALL know I suffer from never sleeping (hence my late night posts most of the time) hehe Bill  |
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Post by arden on Jun 20, 2006 17:55:29 GMT -5
Yes, Bill, that's true. Thanks for clearing that up. Just to be clear Svante heard it but does not himself have the tapes, so the engineers of the swedish show apparently do have them and who knows maybe thru a friend of a friend or a friend of a bootleger friend of a friend a copy of that vocal may surface someday... But Svante didn't even know about all this blog stuff etc till after he posted that and the blog people started emailing him about it. |
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Post by Bill on Jun 20, 2006 22:10:57 GMT -5
New blog post, new clips, new attitude for deano?, no more annon posters...
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Post by arden on Jun 20, 2006 22:22:01 GMT -5
I hope so. He was doing so much damage to his situation with the outbursts. The clips need to be the first thing someone sees when they click on the blog. They had gotten buried in all the rantings. Those all need to be removed. A "just the facts, ma'am" approach would serve him best, IMO. New blog post, new clips, new attitude for deano?, no more annon posters... |
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Post by lecalla on Jun 21, 2006 14:18:47 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more, Arden. Just the facts is all people need. Maybe he can load the links into the sidebar of the blog? Not only would they be more visible, they would all be listed and readily available for those wanting to check out the songs/videos themselves.
Lee
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Post by perrynow on Jun 21, 2006 14:50:09 GMT -5
I hope Kaj doesn't mind. I saw he posted this at MR and mentioned hearing the same thing about Journey from another souce outside of Svante Pettersson:
"This could be the new thing,why not let the fans go up on stage and pretend they´re the lead singer standing behind the mic sounding just like the original lead singer.
Or even better,you could choose your own show....yeah that would be awesome,tonight you get to hear AC DC perform If you want blood featuring the late Bon Scott - yeah we know he´s dead but we still got the tapes and you know what! Brian Johnson´s voice isn´t all that good today so the fans will only love to hear Scott again.
Live in the future will be with click track,protools,machines,tapes and yes I almost forgot - throw in a few guys that looks like they´re playing.
When I started listening to music,I was amazed of how good certain bands/singers could sing or play but today it isn´t funny anymore to go to a live show coz 50% of it is fake.
I remember 20 years ago when I saw TNT here in my hometown and the bassist and guitarist stood there doing backing vocals like they were 5 guys and all sounded like the lead vocalist Tony Harnell....geez,that was embarrasing.
I know Journey used background vocals on tape on the Raised on Radio tour but to use tapes for the lead vocals,oh man.......that gives me the Britney Spears/Milli Vanilli shivers all over.
I heard this story from another guy down at Sweden Rock Festival and he doesn´t know Svante who wrote about it in his blog,so that´s enough for me to get in from 2 directions.
I don´t care if he sang 80% or 20% of the show,a lead singer should always sing live or otherwise they should cancel.
I know many fans over at BT thinks it´s ok if Augeri really would be lipping and that scares me even more coz it´s never ok to do it.
I just cant listen to the studio albums any longer with Augeri,this thing took away all the magic this band had."
_________________
Journey is not just a band,it´s a way of life!
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Post by arden on Jun 21, 2006 16:09:55 GMT -5
This is a very interestng article on lip-synching, especially the part about the bill that was passed. www.louisville.edu/~rmzarr01/Music.htmlA musical group named The New Kids on the Block really made America aware of how many artists actually do lip-synch while in concert. Although they did sing their own songs, they received numerous letters from fans asking if they lip-synch, the group came clean and admitted that they did lip-synch the majority of their songs. They w would use a term called “sampling” and digital tape technology. Sound engineers could use the vocals the group taped in place of their real vocals to deceive the audience (Christensen). Weeks after this concession, an uproar was created by fans. Angry fans filed lawsuits against the group which led to a bill requiring concert promoters to warn fans when singers used tapes with vocals onstage (Christensen). **************************************************** “Inside Edition” with the help of the web site Prosoundweb.com surveyed a group of live sound engineers who work behind the scenes at large live concert venues around the country. Of the 44 that responded the survey, 59 % said that they had replaced a singer’s voice at a concert with a recording (“Inside Edition”). This is pretty huge considering how much trust fans have in their favorite artist. IF the fans knew about this, evidence show the number of fans would decline much like the fan base of Milli Vanilli, The New Kids on the Block and Britney Spears. Horace Ward, who is experienced in mixing sounds at concerts for the past twenty years, says “I know the guys that mix those sorts of things don’t like doing it. They don’t like to perpetrate that sort of lie” (“Inside Edition”). Additionally Ward states “Only five percent of the acts out there lip-synch, but they are some of the biggest acts in the business” (“Inside Edition”). There needs to be an agreement. Fans stand in line for hours paying as much as $85 dollars per ticket. These fans should be let in on the secret of lip-synching. This would change the total revenue that artist receives for their concert drastically. If fans plan on going to a concert, they have the right to know in advance that it is not going to be completely live. |
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Post by arden on Jun 21, 2006 16:23:22 GMT -5
This was originally posted at BT. I am reposting it here with Bobby's permission. He has brought some information into the discussion that was new to me regarding other tapes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not taking sides here, but wanted to straighten some things out.
Dean is not re-editing any bootlegs. The bootlegs in question are from sources this year and last year, from before this whole nightmare ever began. And people are listening to their OWN bootleg CDs of these concerts, obtained last year, and hearing what Dean is hearing. For those that DON'T already have the bootlegs, Dean is posting them. It's not like Dean is mass-producing fake concerts and quickly shipping them all over the world.
But this is not just about two bootlegs and a DVD. There is an officially-released live version of Journey's "Every Generation" from a VH-1 show called "All Roads Lead to the Chip". It is recorded live in concert. Jonathan introduces the song with a live mic and talks about meeting all different 'Generations' of Journey fans.
They then play the song, and Jonathan's vocals seem to be identical to the lead vocals from the 'Generations' CD. Neal's guitar solo and fills are different, Deen's drum fills are quite different. But Jonathan's vocals seem to be identical to the studio track. Listen for yourselves, and make up your own minds.
There is also a version of "Faith in the Heartland" recorded live during that concert and shown on the same VH-1 show. These are not two-second snippets as someone had earlier suggested. These are the entire songs. Some of Stevie's vocal SEEMS to match up perfectly with the 'Generations' track while other sections don't. This seems to follow the notion that the fellas are getting at leat SOME help, but at other times not. Jonathan's song, however, seems to match up with the CD from start to finish.
Now this show isn't something Dean created. You can record this show and listen to it with the CD yourself. It plays on VH-1 from time to time. Maybe some of you have already recorded it. It began last year when Journey was promoting their 30th anniversary tour. Dee Snyder introduces them saying that "Journey is still a great live act. See for yourself". (paraphrasing)
Then they SEEM to play to a pre-recorded lead vocal (at least partially). And that's what the people on the "other" site are talking about (some of them rudely). Journey shouldn't have to do that. That's Britney's trick.
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Post by sexxymofo on Jun 21, 2006 18:36:32 GMT -5
Dean if I may get your attention here for a moment!
Why don't you post the bootleg cd's of both shows over at the following site:
www.guitars101.com/vb/bootlegs-other-bands/index4.html
for us to download and listen to it's entirety & compare on our own as well as it would reach more people along the way. Just a thought.
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